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Pest02

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PostSubject: For Barhah   Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:09 pm

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/dap_10153_12605_DAP_Zombian?i_cntr=1287792390081


Sears is where its at.
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Mr staypuffed

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:37 am

I LOVE THIS!!!
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FuzzyWuzzie

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:00 am

Pest02 wrote:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/dap_10153_12605_DAP_Zombian?i_cntr=1287792390081


Sears is where its at.

Amber Waves suggested that UD players protest SEARS about said ad because, they've obviously taken the Zambah rattle from UD with no link back or credit given to Kevan. She mentioned it on her Facebook, but since it's FB I'm not really comfortable posting a link to her post... But it is interesting.

Would you guys be interested in discusing it here on the board? Maybe we can get Amber over here to lay out her point and debate it?

Discus?
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HellFreeze

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:50 am

Is rattle patented, copyrighted, or something like that? If not, then Sears is only being rude. Maybe it'll be popularized, to become part of the zombie lore, show up in future literature and games, and never ever die.

Also, we should remember they made a joke, which we did find amusing at first. So, if we do stick up for something, let's try to be a good sport about it.

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FuzzyWuzzie

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:58 am

HellFreeze wrote:
Is rattle patented, copyrighted, or something like that? If not, then Sears is only being rude. Maybe it'll be popularized, to become part of the zombie lore, show up in future literature and games, and never ever die.

That question was raised, and I don't think the rattle has been CR'd. In fact Kevan may not be directly responsible for the language (ie: The Zambah's who have perfected and embraced it). It would be interesting to see it take off...Like Klingon or something...lol.

Also, we should remember they made a joke, which we did find amusing at first. So, if we do stick up for something, let's try to be a good sport about it.

I do find it amusing, but would like the game's creator to at least see some acknokedgement for the inspiration and maybe some kind of link-back to the game. Of course, one never knows... Maybe he approved it?

Some people are speculating that someone who is a member of one of the larger hordes, may have a hand in creating the ad. Being that the linguistics seem to be so dead on.

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Amber Waves



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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:45 pm

Hiya! Thanks for poking me about this, Fuzzy. Let me just say first that the Sears "Zombian" campaign is not something I found amusing in the slightest. Then again, I am a cynical badger badger badger badger.

You might lol. That's fine. You're harman. But personally I find the theft of ideas, concepts (and the perversion of a language) for profit absolutely abhorrent.

Quote :
Is rattle patented, copyrighted, or something like that? If not, then Sears is only being rude. Maybe it'll be popularized, to become part of the zombie lore, show up in future literature and games, and never ever die.
The game is copyrighted. You cannot copyright a language. If you could, I'm pretty sure we'd be paying royalties to Shakespeare.

But you can copyright code and concepts. And Kevan has done that. It really is theft.

The players who are involved with the protest have simple demands: Your brains and credit where it's due. It's up to Kevan to pursue legal action if he can/wants.

We're asking players to boycott Sears. Sign the online petition. Dress up like their zombie, and go and lurch around their local sears store -- basically, just have fun getting involved. The worst that could happen is Sears ignores us and we end up looking a bit silly. But who here hasn't accidentally slipped into rattle and ended up looking a bit silly on occasion? Hokay, maybe I'm the only one. MOVING ON!

Quote :
Also, we should remember they made a joke, which we did find amusing at first. So, if we do stick up for something, let's try to be a good sport about it.
People are free to react how they please. I don't think you have a right to tell anyone how they should feel or act IRL. Freedom of expression, the right to peaceably assemble, the right to bag zahm bra!nz...you know?

I'm sure you intended on simply asking for civility. That's fine. I don't think anyone attending will be breaking any laws by...dressing up and acting like a dead. But I'm going to ask you to do something for me: Please remember that zombies are people too. We have rights, we get angry, we ?rise, and act based on that anger.
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Diana Warren

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:49 pm

Quote :
We have rights, we get angry, we ?rise, and act based on that anger.

Naiice. Very smooth. Wink
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FuzzyWuzzie

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:53 pm

I'm posting some links for you guys.

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Siege_on_Sears#Background

While, I realize not everyone can (or will) go to their local Sears outlet to lodge a civil protest. The least we can do is drag our Zambah alts (if you have one) down to Tollytown and protest in game at Sears Auto Repair Razz

http://wiki.urbandead.com/index.php/Siege_on_Sears#In-Game

Come on! It's gonna be Halloween! Let's get off our dead a$$ (pun intended) and have some fun bounce
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sherry stringfield

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:00 pm

I take it we're calling it Zahrz ...?

http://iamscott.net/1288043448369.html

Look! They still have cades! These barriers to the free association of the undead will not stand! An end to capitalist exploitation! Zambahz of Malton unite!

angry mob
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Pest02

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:14 pm

Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.
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FuzzyWuzzie

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:24 pm

Pest02 wrote:
Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.

I'm a left over from the hippie generation (seriously). It's in my blood to protest lol!
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HellFreeze

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:58 pm

angry mob Petition signed, and HellFreeze is lurching his way to Tollyton right now.

Amber Waves wrote:

Quote :
Also, we should remember they made a joke, which we did find amusing at first. So, if we do stick up for something, let's try to be a good sport about it.
People are free to react how they please. I don't think you have a right to tell anyone how they should feel or act IRL. Freedom of expression, the right to peaceably assemble, the right to bag zahm bra!nz...you know?
Invitation to discuss sent to your PM.

Amber Waves wrote:
...zombies are people too. We have rights, we get angry, we ?rise, and act based on that anger.
Awesome. thrash

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Amber Waves



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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:10 am

Fuzzay, I still reckon you should gah hangrah. Laughing

Pest02 wrote:
Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.
"Parody" is one word for it. Theft is another.

They're making money off of our zombies. What did we get in return? They've posted a link to the zombie lexicon on the UD wiki. Is this acknowledgement of the community's work? Does it even mildly represent the spirit of our community? Or are they simply covering their azz?

Do we lay down and accept that we're not gannah grab anah bra!ns -!n z!z barga!n?

No, we stand up and take back that which is rightfully ours! Barhah is and always will be greater than consumerism. And it belongs each and every single one of you. You need to start looking for that tiny light that shimmers just underneath the bra!n bag, or on the surface of the gore. You will see it, but you need to look for it.


Sears is RUINED! Don't let that stop you from shambling over if you're still swaying in the street somewhere. We've got some events planned and any spontaneous speeches or performances are encouraged. Stand outside the AR shop and do whatever your zombie feels like doing. If you feel like wandering off for some brains, GO EAT! Then come back and hang with your zambah brazzahz ahn z!zzahz -!n armz. If you feel like breathing temporarily - let the harmanz inject you with their drugs. You'll be providing snacks for a very hangrah horde.

Speeches, zahngz- especially protest themed songs - zanz!ng...I'm pretty sure I don't need to tell MCM how to have fun!

We've set up a temporary command center in #BB3 on nexuswar.com's server. If you're able, if you're interested, if you just wanna hang ahn gab, drop by! We love you for your brains and we'd love to pick them apart in real time!

Civilized ZKing is also encouraged. It's a great way to help babah zambahz grow B!G ahn ZRANG! If you have a babah zambah, bring h!m or h!r over and drop into IRC. We'll try and arrange some feeds if/when there are enough old zombies about to soften up these big chunks of rotting flesh.

We've dropped the petition because we realized that we don't care about a stupid link. Sears have invested a lot of time and money in this campaign of theirs so they won't give in. It doesn't matter, we're still gannah try to grab zahm real live bra!nz. Drop by our facebook event page if you can. We're trying to co-ordinate ferals there. WARNING! Content is obviously only restricted by facebook's filters. Please browse at your own risk and make sure your privacy settings are appropriate as well. Online safety and privacy is every zombie's right.

The events in game will be largely outside Sears Auto Repair in Tollyton. Let them borrow back their useless brm brm barn. They think these buildings belong to them. We already know -!Z AHRZ! We shall eat the wretched mrh gahz aga!n ahn aga!n until all their puny brains arh GAHN! Then we'll ZANZ AHN Z!NG! And revel in the power, purity and light of BARHAH!
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HellFreeze

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:39 am

Amber Waves wrote:
Pest02 wrote:
Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.
"Parody" is one word for it. Theft is another.
Plagiarism and copyright infringement are indeed theft. So, what is it we actually want? That little link is inadequate, but it is a step in the right direction. It looks like attempted good faith. I think a little blurb next to it, like, "Zombian language is based on Zamgrh [link], and used with permission of Urban Dead ", would be the most correct solution. Uh, they should also ask permission.

By the way, I can't find their link?

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FuzzyWuzzie

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:01 am

HellFreeze wrote:
Amber Waves wrote:
Pest02 wrote:
Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.
"Parody" is one word for it. Theft is another.
Plagiarism and copyright infringement are indeed theft. So, what is it we actually want? That little link is inadequate, but it is a step in the right direction. It looks like attempted good faith. I think a little blurb next to it, like, "Zombian language is based on Zamgrh [link], and used with permission of Urban Dead ", would be the most correct solution. Uh, they should also ask permission.

By the way, I can't find their link?

I had a little trouble finding the links at first. But, the twitter link is on the twitter feed to the advert (in the little window with the tweets), and the link to the UD zombie lexicon is on the bottom of the page.

Whatever our various, individual, motivation might be... uniting our zambah's, alt's, main characters, etc., and getting together for a little (in game) fellowship(?) helps the game. The in-game siege (at the very least), gives me motivation to dust off my zambah and get him leveled up some more. I want him to be able to shout "FREEBIRD!" in Zamgrh cheers

Still plenty of room here: http://iamscott.net/1288105750892.html
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Pest02

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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:22 pm

Zombian is a language. Last I checked, you can't copyright those.

You can copyright certain phrases, so BAHRAH could be copyrighted.

There's a pretty good debate at languagehat. It's worth a read.
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Amber Waves



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PostSubject: Re: For Barhah   Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:21 am

HellFreeze wrote:
Amber Waves wrote:
Pest02 wrote:
Why is everyone getting mad about it?

I thought it was funny. It was a nice little parody, in my opinion.
"Parody" is one word for it. Theft is another.
Plagiarism and copyright infringement are indeed theft. So, what is it we actually want? That little link is inadequate, but it is a step in the right direction. It looks like attempted good faith. I think a little blurb next to it, like, "Zombian language is based on Zamgrh [link], and used with permission of Urban Dead ", would be the most correct solution. Uh, they should also ask permission.

By the way, I can't find their link?

Here's the problem with using it "with permission." The article has been around since LONG before the history wipe. It's basically where I learned to rattle and I know there are more contributors than these Johnny-Come-Lately wiki celebs who are probably going to end up vandalizing the page and making claims on behalf of the UD community.

It is a community project. It is constantly changing. And the individuals who made contributions are not necessarily the ones who thought of the words and phrases on display there. I learned a lot from the article itself, but it would mean NAZZ!NG without my auntie Zemi. She used to make g!ngarharmanz for me and my zombie brazzahz ahn z!zzahz. I can't even find a wiki presence for her and I'm pretty sure she'd be kinda annoyed if Sears decided to steal her recipe.

Even if Sears had asked permission, I doubt they'd be able to contact all authors responsible. And besides, the language isn't specifically what we're pissed about. Advertising is more than words and language. It's concepts and ideas. The entire site is a gimmick which most of their customers simply would not get...had they not pointed them at the article and introduced them to our culture. They stole ARH ZAMBAHZ -- ARH BRA!NZ. And making demands for the entire community is really not going to satisfy everyone.

What each of us wants out of it is going to differ immensely. So short of Sears removing the link, the language and the intelligent zombie theme from their website, there's nothing they can offer us that would satisfy each individual. But...They still can't take it back. They've already gone ahead and published the site and made money from it. They could certainly issue a corporate apology. But that would really just be a pathetic token gesture in zombie circles. You're a zombie and a harman is gaz bagg!n at you about stealing your Zetheren's indigenous identity. What are you gonna do? Mrh at them? Beg them for drugs? Pffffft. Gahm ahn.

Pest02, I'm sorry you don't understand the UDwiki copyright policy. Let's just copy/pasta that here for you to read shall we?
Quote :

UDWiki:Copyrights

All content on the Urban Dead wiki is owned by the individual user who created it, and may not be reproduced without their express permission.
Citation.

"Zombian" is Sears' word for it - And I imagine someone owns a copyright on that word now. And FWIW you can copyright code and code is a language itself used to communicate ideas and concepts, much like Zamgrh or Death Rattle itself. An example: I've seen coder zombies using rattle and Zamgrh to create... AZG!! (lol?) art in game before. It's really quite an amazing display of creativity.

Think of it this way - Zamgrh and fluent use of the language is a symbol of zombie intelligence. (I won't break out Origin of the Species, but I think we can all agree that all species have some form of communication, whether it's verbal, visual or chemical. And it is generally accepted that language and communication is adaptation.) Intelligence -the ability to communicate in order to achieve a goal that the entire community shares- is something that zombies pride themselves on and it's on display daily with every strike team or horde that comes to mind. And let me just clarify, when a feral stumbles into a suburb that one of the organized hordes is munching, that feral becomes part of the horde, we just don't own them. Zamgrh epitomizes this intelligence -- this evolution that you witnessed as BB3 spiraled into a feral frenzy down the west side of Malton. You cannot speak it without thinking about what you want to communicate first. This is why when a zombie says "Rhh rhha rhhra" and someone asks "What did he say?" Zombies generally reply with the translation: "I don't know how to rattle."

Let's say Sears decided to take another symbol from a different game, like ohhh I dunno, say, the companion cube from Portal. That little grey metalic cube that would never threaten to stab you and in fact, cannot talk. The cube that you must destroy to complete the mission and get your hands on that delicious cake. Your friend, for those few minutes...Do they have a right to exploit your dead friends to sell stuff to middle class America? Hell no. And they wouldn't do it because the game, all content, images, code and concept/s are owned by Valve.

Now let's say instead of a symbol from a game, they tried to take one from a culture. A crucifix? A swastika? An Ohm? The Union Jack? A coat of arms? Certainly they're not all trademarked or copyright of any individual organization/person/group. How do you think each of these cultures would react to seeing something that represents part of who they are as a marketing gimmick?

Some won't. Some won't even hear about it. Others will get offended and do something. Still others will be blinded and shop there thinking that the corporation accurately represents their culture/community. I can't tell you what to do, but I can tell you that you're going to have a hard time satisfying everyone with a simplistic "you can't copyright that" response. Hence Siege on Sears. We want nothing. We're just reacting within our rights.

FWIW, "Barhah" is crudely copyright by Jorm, I believe. He owns the domain anyway (which is essentially a license to use the word to advertise or publish the content hosted there under it's banner. TM, might be a more accurate description, perhaps.) And he's sharing that with the zombie community that the site hosts. That's actually really what Barhah is about. It's community, brotherhood, and an enlightened approach towards sharing the profits (brains) of your hard work with your friends and family or your "horde." Essentially, Barhah=Peaceful (though not doormat) Anarchism.
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